“if men don’t want to be accused of rape, maybe they’d better not get involved with women they don’t trust not to accuse them.”
Update on Naming Abusers - FetLife Announcements
AKA: How to Protect Yourself from False Accusations
How to Not Get Falsely Accused of Rape
Why You Really Shouldn’t Have Gone Home With Her
Libel Suit or It Didn’t Happen
I would rather see 10 rapist go free than 1 innocent person go to prison.
Suones_Oscuros, holy… shit, wow. I mean. Damn.
I would rather see 10 rapist go free than 1 innocent person go to prison.
Studies show that rapists, on average, commit six rapes. So what you’re saying is, you’d rather see 60 women (or men, or children) raped than see one dude go to jail. That’s just…so vile. I don’t even have words for that kind of callousness.
You Might Be a “Rape Apologist” If…
Hold on one second, people.
For every person you can name who had their reputation destroyed because of a false rape claim, I can name at least four more who were silenced, dismissed and mocked for speaking up about BEING raped.
So forgive me if I could give a not one flying fuck about all the OMGpotential for lies when the reality of rape is happening every day.
“Watch his reaction. If the word “crazy” or “sick” comes out of his mouth to excuse the accusation, beware. Look at how many other “crazy” exes the wo/man has. Has another “crazy” ex threatened to burn his apt down? Has a third been his “stalker” for 5 yrs? What’s the common denominator here? Does he go through wo/men as often as he gets his oil changed?”
Responsible Community Response « Caught in the Cogs
This post wins ALL the awards.
“So few rapes even get prosecuted that I don’t feel our society treats rape as a real crime. When someone commits rape, the victim gets blamed right out of the gate, and everyone comes to the rapist’s defense to offer justifications and explanations about why the survivor is just crazy. So why are we talking about it like it’s a crime? It’s not a crime, it’s an ordinary fact of life. When someone says, “X raped me,” that’s not a criminal accusation, that’s a barely-audible statement that will be mocked and torn apart the moment it gets uttered.”
– On “if there’s no conviction it didn’t happen” - judasmyheart - FetLife
This is one of the more disgusting aspects of the BDSM scene in general and FL in particular. The “no snitches” attitude that, in practice, makes it worse to accuse someone of rape than to rape someone, because there is no social sanction for the latter without allowing the former.
Yeah, wouldn’t it be sad if guys had to worry about someone accusing them of rape every time they had sex, or were even alone together? Why, I’d imagine men would have to be extremely careful of which women they allowed into their lives, and would have to contrive never to be alone with strangers. They’d probably have to check dark alleys for women before they could enter one. In a world where you could just accuse someone of rape and be essentially sure there were no consequences, imagine how many men might be accused! Probably as many as one in four men would have to deal with an accusation of rape.
Thank god we have an entire society devoted to protecting men from that nightmare reality.
…and the rape (finally) hits the fan on FetLife
Why is it more ethical for someone to tell all their friends (who presumably tell all their friends, etc.) that Mr. Bad Top is bad news, v. posting a journal entry saying “Mr. Bad Top is bad news”? As far as I can see, if Mr. Bad Top is innocent, he’s in a better position in the second case — he’s more likely to find out that he’s being accused, and he can then speak up with his side of the story.
This snippet is good enough, but then I went and read the post it was commenting on, which I’ma repost here before it gets fucking disappeared:
Note | 646 Comments · 594 Love It |4 days ago
I’m a caretaker with the FetLife team. Recently we had a report about your writing, and after review, your writing has been edited and we are writing to let you know. Basically, it’s really not cool to post something that accuses another member of FetLife of a crime. So, we’re giving you a heads up that this behavior is discouraged on our site.
Please know that continued posts like this will result in a warning, and continued warnings can get you removed from FetLife. We really hate to do that, so we hope you’ll avoid any inappropriate comments in the future.
If you’re having a problem or conflict with another user – we want to help! Please let us know what’s going on, so that we can get involved and help to resolve the issue. We’d much rather do that, than play the bad guy :) We hope you understand, and if you have any questions or comments please don’t hesitate to get back to us.
This Caretaker edited my journal entry to remove the names of MATTHEW, who is not a user of the site anymore and another dominant member of the New York City scene who sexually penetrated me without my consent. He also removed a comment on the journal entry by @Cashmere, who stated that that same site user had similarly sexually penetrated her after she had explicitly told him not to interact with her genitals or penetrate her in any way.
I’m going to say that again: CHRISTOPHER EDITED MY JOURNAL ENTRY TO DELETE A REFERENCE TO TWO PEOPLE WHO SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ME AND ANOTHER PERSON.
What you’ve gone through is terrible, and no one should ever have to go through it. As we’ve told you before, we’re totally fine with you talking about your experiences here on FetLife.
Unfortunately making criminal accusations is not currently allowed on FetLife, as you very well know. And now we’ve received another report of you making criminal accusations. Accordingly, we have edited out that part of that post as well, and are now giving you an official FetLife warning.
Please note – we are trying to make as minor of changes as we can to your posts, to preserve their integrity as much as we can while still keeping them within our rules. If there is anything we can help you with, please let us know
What has happened to you is terrible. No one is trying to deny that – not anyone that I have seen in that thread or elsewhere. And people who do that sort of thing to any other human beings should pay. They should have to pay for what they did to you. No matter what price they pay, that won’t restore you to the person you were before this occurred. But they damn well should have to pay to make it as close as possible!
Unfortunately, what you are trying to do doesn’t make that happen. Making criminal accusations is currently against FetLife rules, as you are very aware of. And those we will delete, but try to do so in such a manner as to change your writing or comments as little as possible.
I realize that you don’t agree with this policy. I wish that we could move forward together, to foster awareness of the problem within the community, to try to minimize the mindset among some who don’t seem to realize how wrong this is, and to help victims of sexual assault within our community in particular. Those things we stand ready to help foster and assist.
Then this post, as a response.
Journal Entry | 410 Comments · 503 Love It |4 days ago
I’ve been on this site since the year it started and have paid to support it since. I love how it brings together even the farthest corners of the bdsm world, and it’s played an integral role in my career as a bdsm professional and businesswoman.
My support subscription ran out a week or so ago. At one point, I was certain that I was going my renewal would be as a lifetime supporter. Lately, I’ve been ambivalent, and THIS just clinches it.
Seriously Fet, WHAT THE FUCK. You silence victims and survivors while giving abusers a fucking megaphone. You want my money? Not until we’re able to talk freely about our own abuse and violation without censorship. And to anyone invested in establishing a consent culture in the bdsm world… well, money talks.
OFFICIAL PROTEST PETITION: No money until we pass Prop 429
Notice that the protest event above has been deleted by Fet, with no explanation or warning given to any of us. I guess it was working! Two more protest events have now taken its place.
Just in case anyone is curious, THIS is the reason I don’t hang out on FetLife. But wait, there’s more…
From the man himself, John Baku, site founder:
Clueless Response #1
In response to your “Edited again”:
Rape is one of the worse crimes anyone can commit. Words can’t describe how disgusting rape is and how much hate I have for anyone who has in any way shape or form sexually assaulted another person.
And the only way to protect others from a sexual offender is by putting them behind bars. Not talking about them on FetLife, Facebook, writing a blog post on the interwebs… etc. It does not prevent this person from doing what they did again to someone else.
Agreed… the legal system has failed many a person… but all this energy should be spent improving the system and not allowing other to name their abusers on a site that is not setup, nor has the resources, to give a fair trial to both parties.
So let’s put our energy towards locking up the rapists and throwing away the keys! This way those who have raped can’t do it again and those who would ever consider rape would be so scared shitless of the consequences they would never even consider it.
Clueless Response #2
@yandy Once again I apologize for the way Christopher handled the case. The case was mishandled and we’ve spoken to him about it.
The overall health of FetLife’s community is by far our number one priority and that is why all of us spend so much time reading what people are saying.
I’ve read suggestion 429 and I’ve also read a lot of other discussions on the topic. From what I’ve read, the community is split on what direction FetLife should take so as a community we need to continue to push our ideas further until we find something that the community, overwhelmingly, can get behind.
Hence, we will continue to iterate over our policies and procedures as we discover new ways to make them better for the community.
Let me just stop for a second and say something I definitely would not be allowed to say on FetLife regarding this choice bit:
Words can’t describe how disgusting rape is and how much hate I have for anyone who has in any way shape or form sexually assaulted another person. - John Baku
John Baku sexually assaulted me. Drunk. At a kink party. In front of many others. I have pictures, which he has personally asked me not to post.
In that I had met him before and was sort of fond of him and he sort of reminded me of another drunk misbehaving dumbass I once loved, I laughed it off. But let it be clear - the reason John sees no problem with any of this rape apologist bullshit is because he has a foggy ass notion of consent and acceptable behavior himself.
And because HE PERSONALLY benefits from people like me staying silent.
About the policy itself, from other members:
It’s not that Facebook permits criminal accusations because they’re sympathetic to potential rape victims and what the hey, we’re a massive company, who cares if we get sued. Every company out to make a profit doesn’t want to get sued. Facebook in fact, does permit criminal accusations to be made via Facebook before they are decided by a trial, sometimes with unusual results. Facebook doesn’t take a stance on criminal accusations because it’s not their fucking problem. The second they try to control it, they create a precedent for deciding that it is their fucking problem - and then they’re going to have to answer the question of why they didn’t comb through a seriously gigantic amount of data to find all the shit that a judge or a jury thinks they ought to have found. That’s not how Facebook’s going to roll. If you have a problem with something someone said on Facebook, Facebook will cheerfully direct you to your local law enforcement.
Take a look at that. That’s how a company with a legit team on counsel handles their business, as opposed to John Baku and whatever dinky mail-order law-school drop-out he picked up at the local bar five years ago or whatever the fuck he did instead of trying to run his business like something other than a clueless fuckhead. If you’re going to cover your ass, cover your ass fucking properly.
Right. So. FetLife is Canadian, so oh noes we cannot name the rapists. Yes, Canada does have much stronger privacy laws than the United States. I wonder if that’s why they’re running this shit out of Dallas. John Baku is based out of Vancouver, but his staff is scattered all over North America. Honestly, we don’t even know to what extent FetLife “is” a Canadian company. According to what I just linked to, they registered their domain in Arizona. I think that complicates the “oh no we’re Canadian” defense a wee bit.
But what really complicates the “oh noes they’re naming the rapists” argument is the whole “oh noes they’re talking about pedophilia and bestiality and whatnot but oh hey watch us not give a shit” argument. If FetLife really had legal reasons for covering their ass, they’d do a much better job. That means that, yeah, John Baku needs to step up and tell us why he supports a self-admitted abuser’s right to not have his old username besmirched over the right of a human being to talk about some devastating shit that happened to them. Shit that they might’ve not had to go through if people could use FetLife to warn each other about people on FetLife. Which is all we’re asking.
tl;dr Fuck you, FetLife. Fuck you raw.
If another person who has had no fucking experience reporting a kink scene related sexual assault to the police says to report an incident to the police, I swear I am going to burn the fucking Internet down.
If one more goddamn person says “Go to the cops”, I’m firebombing.
LIke the cops are going to do fuck-all. Seriously.
This is so fucked up.
See also: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/theres-a-war-on-part-4-just-us/
Honestly, if someone’s advice is to go to the police or the courts, then that should be the same standard applied to libel and false accusations. If someone makes a false accusation against you, go to the police. Stop expecting fetlife to police people for you. Oh wait, now we see why that response is just a derail.
What are the effects of male fear of being wrongfully accused of rape?
As a male, if a male acquaintance is accused of rape, your first instinct is give him benefit of doubt, because you think of how you would feel if you were (wrongfully) accused of rape, you sure hope people would give you the benefit of doubt.
The fear is real and affects behaviour, even if wrongful accusations are rare and people failing to stick up for the accused is even rarer.
I’m disappointed no one answered this question. Because the main effect I see is that of turning “nice guys” into rape apologist assholes.